| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Beowulf1976 |
Posted - 12/10/2012 : 13:13:06
You may know that George went to live with my good friend as he had fasted for about 9 months with me, and she got him to eat the first night she took him home, then he fasted again, so he went back to her and he ate for her, the decision was made for him to stay with her. :-(
Well, I missed him too much, so I opted to have him back. The first time I tried to feed him, he refused, but the day after he shed, so i left it for a couple of weeks prior to trying again unfortunately he also refused this meal too.
So, we are back to him fasting with us, the only problem is that my very good friend is leaving the Country, if she hasn't already, so she cannot help me with him again.
George is set up in the EXACT same rub that he lived in with her, in the EXACT same conditions (heat mat set to same temperature, same decor, same water bowl, same everything apart from substrate)- he is now on paper as the condition he came to us in was rather bad, (his rub had at LEAST three separate poops in, with urate all over, under and round the orchid bark) the orchid bark was REALLY not in a good state, so we couldn't reuse it. :-(
I DO NOT want to lose George, but on the other hand I won't sit and watch him starve to death...
Any ideas my friends? |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| hodgie |
Posted - 04/11/2012 : 14:03:41
How are you thawing out the food? Did you use a microwave because i`ve used hundreds of rats over the years and never had one burst. I place the rats near the rubs/vivs for 5-6 hours to thaw out so the snakes get the smell and hopefully build an appetite.
I put up a link to a video in an earlier post did you get to see it?
What you really need to do though is keep a weight chart and always record him after he`s emptied himself. Royals are meant to fast and as you`ve stated he only lost 70g in 10 months, this is totally normal behavour as they don`t all keep on growing. I`ve a 6-7 year old male pastel who is just over 1kg. |
| chrisc |
Posted - 04/11/2012 : 12:30:18
any updates on george? |
| Tweek |
Posted - 29/10/2012 : 23:25:08
Just a thought but you've got other animals. Have you had any mice, rats or gerbils or anything like that thats been in the room & have been moved to another room? So the scent of the live ones has now gone? |
| chrisc |
Posted - 29/10/2012 : 15:28:04
you dont need to worry too much if the UV bulb isnt giving out the full UV as you say the dont acctually need it like a beardie does.
i used to weigh mine weekly while they were fasting so i had a nice record of any weight lost.
i would take him out of the rub an just put him into the viv, you want the hot end to be around 32-34c ish and as for hides any old cardboard box will do long as they can squeeze inside.
as its a new enviroment i would use tissue/newspaper/aspen ect so he should get used to it in the time you let him settle.
also if you have a dunlem mill near you they do fake plants that are cheap £3 for 6ft ish of fake ivy if i remember right.
no problem always happy to help if i can
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| Beowulf1976 |
Posted - 29/10/2012 : 15:07:31
I don't THINK he's lost much, when I first took him on I weighed him, then weighed him after 10 months of fasting, and if I remember correctly, he only lost 70g, so that was negligible(?)
When I weighed him a couple of months back, he was 1,040g, I will weigh him over the next couple of days and let you know. 
Thank you for your input. He's currently in the RUB in the viv, with a ceramic bulb and an old T8 tube as his light, (it only has 2 months left on the UVB, but he doesn't need UVB anyway so no worries there) soon as I can afford it (over next month) I'll be buying orchid bark, LOTS of fake plants for ground and above coverage, and of course hides, not quite sure how to sort hides just yet though, so bear with me. (any ideas would be gratefully received)
One last point, how hot should I have his hot end? (in the RUB, at the moment) So we know what to do, I THINK that 40degC would be too high? (how hot she had him and successfully fed him) The care sheet on here states 34 tops I THINK? (?)
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| chrisc |
Posted - 29/10/2012 : 14:40:49
i would do as you say and put him back in a viv with loads of cover an hides ect leave him for a week to settle etc then try offering a rat or try a large mouse an leave in the cool end if he doesnt take it.
i cant see that your doing anything wrong he seems to be the most fussy royal ive heard of.
got no problem with texting but try him in the viv first an see how it goes i reckon he will be happier in a viv with a nice warm ambient temp instead of belly heat.
has he lost much weight during the fasts? |
| Beowulf1976 |
Posted - 29/10/2012 : 14:08:51
He's in the identical RUB that he was in at my Friend's house! I DID state that, quote:
George is set up in the EXACT same RUB that he lived in with her, in the EXACT same conditions (heat mat set to same temperature, same decor, same water bowl, same everything apart from substrate)- he is now on paper as the condition he came to us in was rather bad, (his RUB had at LEAST three separate poops in, with urate all over, under and round the orchid bark) the orchid bark was REALLY not in a good state, so we couldn't reuse it. :-(
not sure where you got the idea that he's now in a viv from!
My friend [that had George and got him eating immediately as soon as she got him back to hers] came over herself and tried feeding him, in case it was our technique, he refused to eat for her, and on watching her, we realised that her technique was IDENTICAL to mine. (though - unfortunately the rat popped on heating and was so crappy, literally. Not sure if that was the reason why, but Si's Boa gobbled it up like a dustbin, but his Boa IS a dustbin, so that's not saying anything)
I'm planning on putting him back in a viv, on orchid bark, with a light bulb and a CHE, because I don't like him being on a heat mat, apparently large bodied snakes are not supposed to have heat mats because of risk of burning? I plan to get so many plants and decor that the viv is chocka block full of coverage, so that he feels safer and secure, and enclosed. It's obvious that being in exactly the same container is NOT making a single difference in our house, so I think I'd rather him be back in his 3ft x 2ft x 2ft viv, he gets REALLY active at night and I'm not happy with him only having a tiny RUB to explore in.
I will try him with a new rat and not heat it so quickly it pops this time, and see if it was the rat smelling of crap rather than any other variable, my friend that took him on said it could have been, she refused to believe that he wouldn't feed for her, as she held a 100% success rate up until she came to feed him at our house, in his EXACT same set up. (bar orchid bark)
As for scents etc, we have birds in the house so we don't use ANYTHING that could create a scent or fumes, we use roll on deodorants, other than that - perfumes, air fresheners, cleaning products (other than reptile safe disenfectant) bleach, aerosols, EVERYTHING is banned by Si (his birds) everything else is completely natural (apart from roll on deodorants).. Unless it's the LACK of scent, she was always burning scented candles and those burning smoky stick things... (can't remember what they're called, thanks to Aphasia)
I am completely at a loss as to what to do, one thing that I'm NOT doing, is having him at the high temperature that she suggested, the rub is just NOT big enough to cope with it, (there would be no "cool end" never mind variant!) she had him in the 40's(C) and I think that's just TOO HOT!? If you think I should get him back that hot, then I guess I have no choice but to try it. He has NEVER sat directly ON the heat mat since I've had him back though, so it must be too hot for him at 34degC? [b]She measured her temps with a gun, I measure my temps with the digital fridge thermometers, constantly double checking the temperature with another thermometer. (I don't totally trust these cheap digital fridge thermometers!)
Today Simon is bringing George back downstairs into the lounge and putting the rub IN his old viv and giving him a ceramic instead of a heat mat because we just do not like him being on a heat mat, I've heard too many scary stories about big bodied snakes getting burned. Plus one of our rubs got melted in one spot where a different heat mat malfunctioned, I'm not risking that!
George's History before I took him on from Simon in March 2011:
Simon had him in a 3'L x 2'H x 18"D viv and he fed EVERY week, apart from shed time. When we extended our snake collection, Simon built a rack system with heat cable at the back of the rack, George was in a 50L RUB on this racking system, again, he fed EVERY SINGLE WEEK, apart from when due a shed.
The day that Simon collapsed the racking and George was moved onto a cabinet,(the day I bought him from Si) under two other RUBs, he stopped eating. He didn't eat again until my friend took him to hers and fed him that very same night, that was a 9 month fast from March to November. She brought him back after 48 hours, thinking that she would have kick-started him back to eating again... no such luck.. in December she took him back to hers on a more permanent basis, he ate that very same night, but in the new year he started fasting again, she gave him a frozen gerbil and he refused, she tried him with live, then he ate for her every 3-4 weeks... then fasted again for a month or two, then started again, so his feeding schedule was a bit of a mess even with her.
When I got him back here, I waited 6 weeks from when she fed him, giving him 2 weeks to settle here, he refused, but then shed the next day, then we tried again a month later and he refused again, then 2 weeks after that, my friend tried and he refused again, but this time I'm not sure if it was a popped rat's poopy stench that put him off, because he was interested at first, but then backed off and didn't want to know.
So, I'm now open to any advice that you guys can give.
ChrisC, I am willing to text with you to try and solve the problem, but I cannot have a telephone conversation with you because part of my disability means that I cannot process aural information very well at all - I would end up severely piffing you off if you tried to talk to me, the amount of times you'd have to repeat yourself, and you'd have to speak to me like a 6 year old, even then I may not understand what you are talking about - this, I presume, would REALLY annoy the most patient of souls.  (sorry) I can deal with texts though, and if I don't understand something, Simon would decipher it into "layman's terms" for me. Let me know by pm if you are OK with doing that?
Anyone else, if I have provided information that stands out like a sore thumb, and you say "OMG that's so stupid she didn't notice!" then please advise!
That's it really, I'm sorry that this post was so long, I needed to give you all, ALL the information for you to be able to help.
Oh, yes... I have only tried rat weaners here, I've not tried gerbils, because I couldn't get a gerbil when I tried, then my friend had him anyway...
I am open to any suggestions and advice, and if I need a grilling, I will not be offended, I don't take offence easily, I'm too poorly [causing brainfog - also known as seeming to be thick as two short planks!] to know when others are being nasty ROFL 
Kind regards 
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| Ads |
Posted - 19/10/2012 : 18:19:14
quote:
Originally posted by hodgie
[quote]Originally posted by Ads
Just a thaught, if all the viv conditions are the same perhaps the problem has an external cause. When your friend had him where was the viv located? If you can mayby try to locate your viv in a similar place. Hope it all works out for you [/quote
It was in a rub
Sorry my bad  please substitute viv with rub, I think the basic principal still applies though |
| hodgie |
Posted - 17/10/2012 : 20:26:07
[quote]Originally posted by Ads
Just a thaught, if all the viv conditions are the same perhaps the problem has an external cause. When your friend had him where was the viv located? If you can mayby try to locate your viv in a similar place. Hope it all works out for you [/quote
It was in a rub |
| Ads |
Posted - 17/10/2012 : 19:20:36
Just a thaught, if all the viv conditions are the same perhaps the problem has an external cause. When your friend had him where was the viv located? If you can mayby try to locate your viv in a similar place. Hope it all works out for you |
| badwool |
Posted - 17/10/2012 : 16:12:40
You're not too far from me, I live in Macclesfied.
One thing I dont have however is time, I run my own business and have 3 children so I am always busy.
What I will say though is if as a last resort you want a home for him temporarily I have 2 33litre RUBS spare in my rack that he could stay in for a while.
Not really sure what else I can offer though - I feel for you!
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| Danno91 |
Posted - 17/10/2012 : 15:47:34
Sorry little to far for me sorry, id love to have tried helping, can you please stat yourfeeding routine from the moment you take food out of your freezer |
| hodgie |
Posted - 17/10/2012 : 14:43:10
All i can think is, you must be doing something wrong. Changing the substrate will make absolutely no difference.
You say that your doing everything the same as your friend but your temps could be wrong if your rooms to cold.
Can you please state what -
Size of rub your using
size of heat mat
Stat probe, inside the rub or underneath.
And most importantly how do you check your temps please.
Even better if you can attach pictures. |
| chrisc |
Posted - 17/10/2012 : 12:13:22
shame your not closer or i could have come an had a look.
if you want to email me your number we can have a chat an see if i can help at all
my email should be on my profile |
| Beowulf1976 |
Posted - 16/10/2012 : 00:57:52
A small village just outside Cannock, Staffordshire... |
| Danno91 |
Posted - 15/10/2012 : 17:27:11
Where are you located ? |
| Beowulf1976 |
Posted - 15/10/2012 : 16:10:22
The ONLY variable that has changed is that we took his orchid bark away and replaced it with newspaper. (We had no choice, it was heavily soiled and smelly)
I don't know whether to waste money on more orchid bark to remove the variable, in case that does nothing.
The only difference in scent would be that his RUB is now clean. We don't use ANY smelly stuff, not even perfumes, we all use roll on deodorant, don't touch ANY aerosol products, no air fresheners, no smelly cleaning products, all natural due to Simon's birds. The distinct LACK of all this could be a variable?
George showed an interest in the rat when offered, but he then buggered off and left it.
Do any of you guys live within a distance where you'd be willing to come round and try feeding him for me? (I would provide food) Could my technique be so wrong he doesn't want to eat?
Simon suggested that the seasonal decline in temps could possibly have an effect?
Later today, or tomorrow, Simon is going to move George upstairs for me, so he is in a warmer room, thus imitating Summer in his old home. IF that doesn't make a difference, I will purchase orchid bark to put in as substrate. If THAT doesn't improve matters, then I will HAVE to rehome him to someone who is willing to try everything. (My Friend is leaving the Country so she cannot take him back again)
I am kicking myself in the teeth now, but IF he continues to refuse food for the next few months, and we exhaust every possibility, are any of you guys interested in taking on the challenge? :-(
I look forward to your input...
Thanks,
Carol x
PS. Just weighed him, he's 1,040g, so still heavier than he was when he was with me previously...
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| Lotabob |
Posted - 14/10/2012 : 16:55:25
If you are doing everything the friend did then I think the only variable that could be changing is scent. The smell of the room he is in, do you spray anything in the room, use a plug-in anything that scents the room? Any other animals? Its clutching at straws but I honestly cant think of anything else that could vary just by moving location. |
| hodgie |
Posted - 12/10/2012 : 19:17:41
It could be something as simple as the food items not being warm enough? I know yours isn`t a baby but this video could be relevent.
http://youtu.be/WbX1YVZp4WU
I always use a hair dryer
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| chrisc |
Posted - 12/10/2012 : 16:39:10
have you tried him on mice or gerbils instead of rats?
probably already doing this but keep a record of his weight ect may also be worth sending off a poo sample incase he has worms of some internal infection never know.
are you leaving the prey item in overnight? |
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