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Danno91
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
521 Posts |
 Posted - 29/08/2012 : 21:43:54
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Right can I have all your honest views please
Breading brothers and sisters, children to parents.
reptiles .
Have you done this, would you do it, do you see any issues with it.
my view on this is no I wouldn't do this and my reasons are i would not sleep with a family member myself so i wouldn't put my snakes in that position. Id also be worried about possible health issues.
Now i know some do this in not saying they are wrong as we all have our own beliefs just want others opinions
Thanks :) |
http://www.facebook.com/DannosRoyalPythons?ref=hl |
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AndyJ80
Yearling
United Kingdom
385 Posts |
Posted - 29/08/2012 : 21:53:06
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I guess its a question about the variety of genetics.
If siblings/parents mate, they already have 50% similar genes (since we inherit 50% from each parent), so the chances of any genetic faults are greatly increased.
That's my view |
1.0.0 CB12 Normal
1.0.0 CB12 Super Pastel
0.1.0 CB12 Mojave
1.0.0 CB10 Fire
0.1.0 CB10 Blackbee
0.1.0 CB10 Granite het albino
0.1.0 CB12 Vanilla
1.1.0 CB12 Pastel 100% het G Stripe
0.1.0 CB12 Enchi
1.1.0 CB12 het Caramel
0.1.0 CB12 het Pied
0.1.0 CB12 het Orange Ghost
1.0.0 CB10 Pastel het Orange Ghost
1.0.0 CB12 Cinnamon Genetic Stripe
0.1.0 CB13 Pastel
more on the way |
Edited by - AndyJ80 on 29/08/2012 21:54:12 |
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blackskull
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1278 Posts |
Posted - 29/08/2012 : 22:03:30
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| in all honesty i was thinking about doing it in the future to produce an albino pinstripe, but thats way in the future. but i might end up buying a pinstripe het albino if i can source one near me |
1.1 normal royal, sully, silver
0.1 pinstripe royal, penny
1.1 pastel royal, lars, clover
0.1 lesser royal, serenity
0.1 black pastel royal, betty
0.1 mojave royal, mavis
0.1 normal het clown
1.0 pastel het clown
1.0 nuclear, ned
1.0 super phantom
1.0 childrens python, myles
0.1 hog island boa
0.1 sonoran x boa, grace
0.0.1 mack snow leopard gecko, munchkin
4.1 cats, stan, dave, marble, binx, daisy
4.1 rabbits, mol, ted, bill, spud, alice
0.1 crazy cat/bunny lady of bridgwater, lucy |
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Cookie
Yearling
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 29/08/2012 : 23:04:08
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| Yea I always wondered this too.. When I eventually get to breed I dont think I would inbreed, I know they arnt human but still seems immoral lol... Plus I couldnt bare it if one of the hatchlings were deformed because of how I bred them.. I wouldnt risk it. |
1.2.0 Royal Pythons (Sebastian, Romeo & Gypsy)
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carlb1981
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1527 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 02:42:43
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| This was something i was thinking of doing with Marty my yellow belly as his sister is still in the shop i bought him from so was thinking of purchasing her to breed with him to produce some ivories but might just source a female from else where due to the same worries. just one quick point though are all types of one morph not going to be related in some way for example say the first pinstripe, was that not inbred to its babies to produce more of them and then the babies to their babies and so on making all pins a distant bloodline from the 1st? |
3.3.0 Royals,Yellow Belly -Marty,Fire YB-Fred,Mojave-Mo,Butter Pinstripe-Betty,Pewter-Newt,Normal-Molly
0.1.0 Snow Cornsnake- Lumi
1.1.0 Hypo Sonoran Dwarf Boa-Bart and Maggie
0.1.0 Albino Pine Snake-Ruby
1.0.0 Bredli Python-Brian
1.0.0 Western Hognose-Hal
1.0.0 Kayuadi Retic-Kaa
0.1.0 Honduran Milksnake-Jubbly
1.1.0 Salmon Boas-Hershey and Sam
0.2.0 Leopard Geckos-Spot and Chocolate
1.4.0 Dune Geckos
0.1.0 Beardie-Cookie
0.3.7 Tarantulas
0.0.1 Pandinus Imperator/emperor scorpion
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Baobab
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1393 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 08:46:43
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Its generally a no go with other animals due to the risks of creating genetic flaws into lines.
It's not something I personally would ever contemplate.
Is this why the spider morphs have their wobble? Now the fault is in the line it can not be bred out. Now that flaw may be at risk of moving between morphs whenever the spider line is introduced.(Probable speaking c**p but thats my take on it). |
Royal 8.0 - Piebald (Dipstick), Calico (Flake), Pinstripe (Copper), Kingpin het Hypo (Gabriel), Soulsucker (Morgoth), Clown (Ziggy), Phantom (Spook), Enchi( Stenchi) .................Royal 0.12 - Pastel (Elanor), Spider (Willow), Normal het pied (Loki),, Pastel Sterling Orange Hypo (Misty), Normal (WC parents) (Cinders), Pewter (Tinuviel), Yellowbelly (Kaiko), Mojave (Milly), Champagne (Bubbles), Fire (Flame), Karma paradox (Smudge), Amoretti (Rita).Boa's 2.2.1- Eowyn (common), Snuggles (BCC), Bonnie (BCC), Bear (BCL) & Baileys (Kahl strain)..........Western Hognose 0.0.2 - Timmy & Henry.
Coastal*diamond carpet python 0.0.1- Pippin.........Brazilian Rainbow Boa 0.0.1 - Badger..........Granite Burmese 0.1 - Sally
Reticulated python 2.2 - Saru (purple albino), Cheesy (Sunfire albino white), Titan (Platinum Titanium) & Gala (Sunfiretiger het albino)......Rat snake 1.0 Remmy.
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 10:51:55
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I plan on doing it, it's pretty much necessary if you want high end morphs.
And Baobab the spider gene is a single dominant gene it was wild and probably not the result of inbreeding it just happens to be a bit crazy ^^ Kind of like blaming arthritis on inbreeding I've never understood why so many people blame genetic defects on inbreeding we have thousands in the human race that aren't the result of inbreeding. |
\v/ Click me for Kelfezond Reptiles Facebook Page! \v/
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Baobab
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1393 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 12:25:10
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Like I said. "Probably speaking C**p". I live and learn.
However, you should have picked a neurological comparison rather than a physical one. |
Royal 8.0 - Piebald (Dipstick), Calico (Flake), Pinstripe (Copper), Kingpin het Hypo (Gabriel), Soulsucker (Morgoth), Clown (Ziggy), Phantom (Spook), Enchi( Stenchi) .................Royal 0.12 - Pastel (Elanor), Spider (Willow), Normal het pied (Loki),, Pastel Sterling Orange Hypo (Misty), Normal (WC parents) (Cinders), Pewter (Tinuviel), Yellowbelly (Kaiko), Mojave (Milly), Champagne (Bubbles), Fire (Flame), Karma paradox (Smudge), Amoretti (Rita).Boa's 2.2.1- Eowyn (common), Snuggles (BCC), Bonnie (BCC), Bear (BCL) & Baileys (Kahl strain)..........Western Hognose 0.0.2 - Timmy & Henry.
Coastal*diamond carpet python 0.0.1- Pippin.........Brazilian Rainbow Boa 0.0.1 - Badger..........Granite Burmese 0.1 - Sally
Reticulated python 2.2 - Saru (purple albino), Cheesy (Sunfire albino white), Titan (Platinum Titanium) & Gala (Sunfiretiger het albino)......Rat snake 1.0 Remmy.
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Edited by - Baobab on 30/08/2012 12:31:07 |
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reptilemadd
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
969 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 12:41:31
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Kelf can you be truely sure that those defects in humans aren't as a result of inbreeding? if we were to follow our family tree all the way back homosapiens emerged along side neanderthal ( i know they are spelt wrong sorry) as a result of a genetic mutation and the neanderthals became extinct, now since in terms of todays population there were very few homosapiens so at some point in our evolution there may have been a certain amount of inbreeding.
As far as the spider gene is concerned my understanding is that something about that gene causes issues with the movement of the snake a bit like parkinsons in humans however unlike parkinsons humans intentionally breed this snake because they like the look of it, which in my opinion is wrong, even though I will admit to liking the look of certain snakes that have the spider gene I personally wouldn't own one.
As far as breeding child to parent or siblings together I think kelf is right in saying sometimes it has to be done to prove out a certain type of morph, does that make it right? IMO no cause it's just being done so humans can make a profit and is justified by us saying as long as it's only done the once it's ok cause there doesn't appear to be any genetic side effects, that's not to say though that there isn't any, just that we can't tell. But with all that said I like royal morphs and since I don't think I'll ever be at a point where I'm trying to "prove a new type of morph" for me there are plenty of the particular morphs I want to choose from so it will never be an issue for me as a breeder. Just my opinion.......... |
1.0.0 beardie "magic"
1.1.0 100% Het Clown "Cerberus" and "Artemis"
0.1.0 Poss Calico "Ariadne"
1.0.0 Lesser " Kronos"
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Fezza
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1063 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 18:40:16
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Inbreeding probably happens in the wild also, if you think about some animals that live in remote, cut off habitats. It's hard to believe that a particular species will overcome geological obsticals like mountain ranges or river in the name of genetic out crossing.
Take the rough scale python for example. Small groups of animals are known to exist in relatively tiny areas in the Kimberly region of Australia, often cut off from other groups of the same species by massive geological borders but survive and multiply within these habitats sometimes no bigger than a football field. I wouldn't think it would be a massive jump to conclusion that there is interbreeding happening there on a consistent basis
Also as Kelf said, most morphs (especially simple recessive stuff) are the result of line breeding at the outset |
1.0.0 normal royal
1.0.0 mojave royal
1.0.0 pastel enchi royal
0.1.0 cinnamon royal
0.1.0 pewter royal
0.1.0 genetic stripe royal
0.1.0 lesser goblin royal
0.1.0 phantom royal
0.1.0 Columbian rainbow boa
0.0.1 aru x jaya GTP
0.1.0 bredli
1.0.0 trans pecos rat snake
1.0.0 fat black cat
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Edited by - Fezza on 30/08/2012 19:21:30 |
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carlb1981
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1527 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 19:03:29
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| Im sure plenty mammals inbreed too at the rate rats rabbits and mice multiply in small areas like barns houses and the like surely there would have to be breeding to achieve the high numbers they can get too |
3.3.0 Royals,Yellow Belly -Marty,Fire YB-Fred,Mojave-Mo,Butter Pinstripe-Betty,Pewter-Newt,Normal-Molly
0.1.0 Snow Cornsnake- Lumi
1.1.0 Hypo Sonoran Dwarf Boa-Bart and Maggie
0.1.0 Albino Pine Snake-Ruby
1.0.0 Bredli Python-Brian
1.0.0 Western Hognose-Hal
1.0.0 Kayuadi Retic-Kaa
0.1.0 Honduran Milksnake-Jubbly
1.1.0 Salmon Boas-Hershey and Sam
0.2.0 Leopard Geckos-Spot and Chocolate
1.4.0 Dune Geckos
0.1.0 Beardie-Cookie
0.3.7 Tarantulas
0.0.1 Pandinus Imperator/emperor scorpion
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carlb1981
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1527 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 19:04:08
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quote:
Originally posted by carlb1981
Im sure plenty mammals inbreed too at the rate rats rabbits and mice multiply in small areas like barns houses and the like surely there would have to be inbreeding to achieve the high numbers they can get too
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3.3.0 Royals,Yellow Belly -Marty,Fire YB-Fred,Mojave-Mo,Butter Pinstripe-Betty,Pewter-Newt,Normal-Molly
0.1.0 Snow Cornsnake- Lumi
1.1.0 Hypo Sonoran Dwarf Boa-Bart and Maggie
0.1.0 Albino Pine Snake-Ruby
1.0.0 Bredli Python-Brian
1.0.0 Western Hognose-Hal
1.0.0 Kayuadi Retic-Kaa
0.1.0 Honduran Milksnake-Jubbly
1.1.0 Salmon Boas-Hershey and Sam
0.2.0 Leopard Geckos-Spot and Chocolate
1.4.0 Dune Geckos
0.1.0 Beardie-Cookie
0.3.7 Tarantulas
0.0.1 Pandinus Imperator/emperor scorpion
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carlb1981
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1527 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 19:05:29
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| Oops that was meant to be an edit not a quote lol |
3.3.0 Royals,Yellow Belly -Marty,Fire YB-Fred,Mojave-Mo,Butter Pinstripe-Betty,Pewter-Newt,Normal-Molly
0.1.0 Snow Cornsnake- Lumi
1.1.0 Hypo Sonoran Dwarf Boa-Bart and Maggie
0.1.0 Albino Pine Snake-Ruby
1.0.0 Bredli Python-Brian
1.0.0 Western Hognose-Hal
1.0.0 Kayuadi Retic-Kaa
0.1.0 Honduran Milksnake-Jubbly
1.1.0 Salmon Boas-Hershey and Sam
0.2.0 Leopard Geckos-Spot and Chocolate
1.4.0 Dune Geckos
0.1.0 Beardie-Cookie
0.3.7 Tarantulas
0.0.1 Pandinus Imperator/emperor scorpion
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Danno91
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
521 Posts |
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 23:06:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Danno91
Cool I was hoping we would have different views :)
Lol you only have to utter the word "spider" around snake enthusiasts for a debate XD |
\v/ Click me for Kelfezond Reptiles Facebook Page! \v/
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Danno91
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
521 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 23:31:14
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Ya that does seem to be a very touchy subject,
On another note the interbreeding is something I've been wondering for a while I have always said I won't and will probably stick to it, but it would make all my plans far cheaper and easier if I was to change my mind, |
http://www.facebook.com/DannosRoyalPythons?ref=hl |
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 23:45:52
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| I said the same at the start but changed my mind probably for the same selfish reasons, although the staggering amount of captive bred reptiles are from breeders who all inbreed |
\v/ Click me for Kelfezond Reptiles Facebook Page! \v/
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boomslang
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2025 Posts |
Posted - 31/08/2012 : 02:03:20
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sXS9Nzmq7E
Couldn't help myself  |
1.0.0 pinstripe Royal Python
1.0.0 Bumblebee Royal Python
1.0.0 Normal corn
1.0.0 Extreme red Hognose
0.1.0 Extreme red tiger Hognose
1.1.0 yemen chameleons
1.0.0 Piebald yemen
1.0.0 Tamatave panther
1.0.0 Quadricornis
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reptiledanny
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2106 Posts |
Posted - 31/08/2012 : 13:21:22
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snakes in general are different to humans and other animals. saying that its wrong to inbreed them due to it causing problems with humans etc isnt really a valid point. it has been said that inbreeding royals doesnt cause problems like it does to other animals, and only starts to affect them further down the line like 7th or 8th generations if continiously inbred.
the spider gene has nothing to do with inbreeding. the original wild cought spider had the neoroligical problem, and ever since all spiders have originated from this one wild caught specimen as they have never found another wild spider.
in my opinion there is nothing wrong with breeding mother to sons, brothers and sister etc togethers unless a problem does arrise. |
1.2 royal pythons 0.1 hog island boa 1.0 corn snake
sig made by stapey |
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Danno91
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
521 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2012 : 11:20:38
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Thank you all for your comments I don't know if I have changed my mind as of yet, but its been good to hear both sides of the argument, I was Hoping to be more involved in the thread but I have not had he time recently,
I'm going to be doing some more research on this to see if I get more of an idea of if there is actually any issues that can arise,
All I really know for sure at the moment it would be a lot cheaper and convient if I did |
http://www.facebook.com/DannosRoyalPythons?ref=hl |
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LittlestarRed
Yearling
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2012 : 11:46:10
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To be honest I don't know how I feel about in-breeding Snakes.
I know most breeders do it and without doing so many Morphs could and would not be produced. Therefore I understand it's an essential part of the 'business' aspect of breeding.
That said it's something I was horrified at when I first read about it! Further research has shown that most of these pairings seem to produce healthy offspring. So now i'm starting to wonder if it's not so bad after all?
In conclusion i'm decidedly undecided on the topic! LOL
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Royals:1.2 Normals 'Hector'(He's my Baby! lol),'Lily' & 'Satan',0.1 Albino 'Alice', 0.2 Bumblebees 'Belle' & 'unnamed', 0.1 Pinstripe 'Stripy', 1.0 Pastel het Albino 'Pasty' 1.0 HG Woma 'Helix' & 0.1 Lesser 'Honey' 1.0 Enchi 'Max',0.1 Pewter Fader 'Pandora' and 1.0 Clown 'Krusty'. Others: 0.1 Corn 'Nagini', 1.0 BRB 'Juju', 1.0 Honduran BCI 'Lucius', 1.1 Beardies 'Beanie and Snuggle' and 1.0 Yemen Chameleon 'Jasper'(a.k.a Hissy Fusspot). |
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debate time
