The Royal Python Forum
The Royal Python Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Welcome
 Introductions
 Delayed Fertility?
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author  Topic Next Topic
Page: of 3

Exile69
Snake Mite

United Kingdom
10 Posts

Posted - 26/07/2010 :  21:14:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Everybody,

I wonder if anybody can help me (apologies in advance if this topic has been discussed before but I didnít know what to enter into the search string and feel free to move this to another section if it would be more appropriate).

Let me start....
Iíve had my Royal, Brian since 1991 with no real major probs, about a couple of months ago he (the significance of this will be revealed!) went off his food, with it not being the first time this has happened I wasnít too worried as I knew his appetite would return. That was until one morning I discovered sitting him on a clutch of 5 eggs (at this point I realised that I may have been wrong to name him Brian and that I might have sexed him/her wrong LOL). Anyway, after recovering from the initial shock I decided that it wouldnít do any harm to leave her on the eggs at least till it looked as though they were going off.

All good so far, until one morning (2 months later as it turned out to be!), I decided to remove the obviously sterile eggs and was confronted with a tiny head sticking out of one of them! Not knowing what to do or even if it was alive I left it alone. The following morning I was confronted with an apparently healthy baby python moving quite happily about the enclosure (On advice I subsequently separated it from its mother).

What I really wanted to know is;
Is this normal for Royals or Pythons in particular?
Does it happen often, or is it a strange anomaly?
Can anybody shed some light on this occurrence?




That was 2 days ago............
This morning I found the following in his tank!

What is it?
He's still active!
I did notice that he was a little plump before. Is it possible that he's regurgitated something that he injested whilst still in the egg? Or is it something more serious?
Please help!

Welly
Yearling

United Kingdom
423 Posts

Posted - 26/07/2010 :  21:30:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Got any bigger pictures?
Has it every been paired? Does it Co-habit with another snake?


0.1.0 Royal Python
0.0.1 Mexican Black King
1.0.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa

Edited by - Welly on 26/07/2010 21:31:57
Go to Top of Page

Exile69
Snake Mite

United Kingdom
10 Posts

Posted - 26/07/2010 :  21:43:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


Same pic but hopefully a better resolution.
I can get others as I froze it just in case.
And no the snake is alone, none of the other eggs hatched.
The snake is moving about apparently okay as I type.
Go to Top of Page

Welly
Yearling

United Kingdom
423 Posts

Posted - 26/07/2010 :  21:50:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have no idea. But i'm certainly intrigued!
Im amazed how it can produce offspring without ever being mated.

Coud it be A sexual?

Is there any distinguishing marks on the "thing"?


0.1.0 Royal Python
0.0.1 Mexican Black King
1.0.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
Go to Top of Page

Exile69
Snake Mite

United Kingdom
10 Posts

Posted - 26/07/2010 :  21:55:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You're amazed!!!
I was hoping you'd tell me 'oh yeah this happens a lot'.

To be honest I didn't look to long at the 'thing' as it turned my stomach!
Go to Top of Page

Welly
Yearling

United Kingdom
423 Posts

Posted - 26/07/2010 :  22:22:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can't understand how if it hasn't been mated then how could it become gravid? And also what that "thing" is.

My mind is racing trying to work out what it is. I am fairly new too snakes so not really a voice to listen too compared to other on this forum.
But could it be Fetus in fetu maybe.
A twin inside a twin.


0.1.0 Royal Python
0.0.1 Mexican Black King
1.0.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
Go to Top of Page

matty18714
Royal Python Moderator

United Kingdom
2016 Posts

Posted - 26/07/2010 :  22:40:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Im a bit confused, correct me if im wrong:

1) A royal you thought was male layed eggs.
2) It hasnt been in conact with ANY other snake?
3) One (and only one?) hatched.
4) This freaky thing has come out of the hatchling (which is housed by itself?).

What ever it is, I have to say, that is the weirdest thing I have ever seen that has come out of a snake.

Go to Top of Page

Welly
Yearling

United Kingdom
423 Posts

Posted - 26/07/2010 :  22:43:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

4) This freaky thing has come out of the hatchling (which is housed by itself?).


Looking at the markings i'd say that was out of the parent snake (Brian)


0.1.0 Royal Python
0.0.1 Mexican Black King
1.0.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
Go to Top of Page

Exile69
Snake Mite

United Kingdom
10 Posts

Posted - 26/07/2010 :  23:57:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by matty18714

Im a bit confused, correct me if im wrong:

1) A royal you thought was male layed eggs.
2) It hasnt been in conact with ANY other snake?
3) One (and only one?) hatched.
4) This freaky thing has come out of the hatchling (which is housed by itself?).

What ever it is, I have to say, that is the weirdest thing I have ever seen that has come out of a snake.



1) My sexing was a guess when I originally got it(obviously a wrong one LOL).
2) No quite true, I was told that the snake was a few months old when I got it, so there may have been contact before then but not in the last 19 years.
3) Yes only 1.
4) The 'thing' had to have come out of it as the tank it is in is new, the parent is still in it's own enclosure.
Go to Top of Page

AlannaJohan
Yearling

United Kingdom
162 Posts

Posted - 27/07/2010 :  07:33:16  Show Profile  Visit AlannaJohan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Oh my! What a strange turn of events for you and Brian (Brianetta, perhaps now?)

I'm a new owner myself, so not sure I can actually shed any light on the situations. How old was Brian when you got her? (Just wondering if she had reached sexual maturity or not)? I have no idea how long a female can carry fertile eggs but I'm imagining 19 years is a bit much! Could hermpahroditism produce fertile eggs? Is it a known phenomenon in pythons? (I ask these questions openly to anybody who might knwo as I don't have a clue!)

As for the 'thing', I'd agree with Welly's suggestion that - with the hatchling being so young - it might be a regurgitated foetal twin. As you've frozen it, have you thought about taking the said 'thing' to a vets or simimlar for examination?

Will watch this topic with intrigue.

Oh, and welcome to the forum!!

Seriously quite bizarre.


Alanna
With Maya, Stan & Lucie (Alaskan Malamutes), Bruce (Royal Python) and Keith (fiance, lol).
Go to Top of Page

Blackecho
Royal Python Admin

United Kingdom
11327 Posts

Posted - 27/07/2010 :  08:27:10  Show Profile  Click to see Blackecho's MSN Messenger address  Send Blackecho a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Something not quite right here...

At some point she must have been in with another snake. Have you ever been on holiday and left someone else to look after her?

The thing that has come out of the baby, I have no idea, but I think a trip to the vets is probably advisable.



Go to Top of Page

Welly
Yearling

United Kingdom
423 Posts

Posted - 27/07/2010 :  09:39:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AlannaJohan

Oh my! What a strange turn of events for you and Brian (Brianetta, perhaps now?)
As for the 'thing', I'd agree with Welly's suggestion that - with the hatchling being so young - it might be a regurgitated foetal twin. As you've frozen it, have you thought about taking the Seriously quite bizarre.



I think what i was getting at was the "thing" is Brian's twin. Laying dorment for years, finally and somehow, grew and fertillised Brian and has now been passed through.

I know it seems really far fetched. But i can't see any other answer.
What i would do is document everything as much as possible and get in contact with a few "experts" and see what they can offer, as this maybe a 1 in a million case.


0.1.0 Royal Python
0.0.1 Mexican Black King
1.0.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
Go to Top of Page

lee2308
Royal Python Moderator

United Kingdom
2597 Posts

Posted - 27/07/2010 :  10:14:48  Show Profile  Click to see lee2308's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Excuse me for being skeptical but if this is for real i would take it along to your local zoo or uni as this is unheard of,snakes have been known to retain sperm for a year or 2 max.Once again if this is genuine the ting would probably be a twin that the snake has eaten in the egg,im not saying your not being truthful about this but we do get alot of people try it on.

Members map-------Want to be on the map?

Go to Top of Page

Exile69
Snake Mite

United Kingdom
10 Posts

Posted - 27/07/2010 :  10:58:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guys,
I understand the scepticism (Iím as sceptical as the next person), but I didn't come on here for some sort of glorification only because this forum seemed best suited as itís Royal specific. Iíve nothing to gain from this and only hope to discover what happened.

I've only ever had the 1 snake (I've had other animals; spider, scorpion, dogs, rats, gerbils, fish, duck, rabbits, etc) and she has never left the house so the only contact must have been before I got her. Her age when I got her canít be verified, but I was told that she was only a few months old, but then again they told me she was a he!

I find this as hard to believe as anybody, Iím not religious so donít think of it as a miracle so there MUST be a scientific explanation, it MUST have happened before.

Can anybody recommend any experts in the field of Royals that might be able to shed some light on this?

My family has become quite attached to our little unplanned addition, but it seems so delicate we just hope that it survives.

Thanks for the replies and hopefully somebody will read this and be able to explain it. Whatever happens Iíll keep you all informed.
Go to Top of Page

Welly
Yearling

United Kingdom
423 Posts

Posted - 27/07/2010 :  11:05:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dr mark o'shea, the head herp guy at west midlands safari park is the guy to get in contact with. If there is anybody who could work it out i'd start with him


0.1.0 Royal Python
0.0.1 Mexican Black King
1.0.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
Go to Top of Page

lee2308
Royal Python Moderator

United Kingdom
2597 Posts

Posted - 27/07/2010 :  11:13:07  Show Profile  Click to see lee2308's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Try contact these http://www.thebhs.org/index.html

Members map-------Want to be on the map?

Go to Top of Page

lee2308
Royal Python Moderator

United Kingdom
2597 Posts

Posted - 27/07/2010 :  11:24:36  Show Profile  Click to see lee2308's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
where abouts are you?

Members map-------Want to be on the map?

Go to Top of Page

Blackecho
Royal Python Admin

United Kingdom
11327 Posts

Posted - 27/07/2010 :  13:22:24  Show Profile  Click to see Blackecho's MSN Messenger address  Send Blackecho a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I don't think this is necessarily a Royal specific question, this is a genuine first for me in any snake that I've heard of. Sorry if I came across too sceptical, as with others, I'd try contacting a zoo or proper herp vet.



Go to Top of Page

Exile69
Snake Mite

United Kingdom
10 Posts

Posted - 27/07/2010 :  14:31:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for all the advice,
With your advice I've started a diary, created a quick web site (http://theexile69.webs.com/index.htm) to keep everybody informed (please note that this was only hastily made so be gentle) and contacted the guys you mentioned and as many other experts that I can find.
I'm watching the little one now moving about and it seems as happy as anything. Fingers crossed it'll be ok.
I'll keep you all updated if I hear anything and still welcome all suggestions.

BTW: Does anybody have contact details for Dr mark o'shea as I've searched his sight in vain. And in answer to the other question I live in the SE of London.

Edited by - Exile69 on 27/07/2010 15:25:33
Go to Top of Page

Lettsy1
Yearling

United Kingdom
147 Posts

Posted - 27/07/2010 :  16:25:18  Show Profile  Click to see Lettsy1's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
hiya guys, hope you dont mind exile69 but just been in touch with west midlands safari park(cos this has got me really intrigued!!) managed to speak to a lovely guy in the reptile house who will pass a message on to Dr Mark O'Shea as he is the consultant there. Gave the details of the thread so hopefully we will find out an answer! fingers crossed!!!!

1.1.0 Royal (Dash,Sheba & Ditto)
1.1.0 Western Hognose (Frank & Grace)
0.0.1 Snow Corn (Ghost)

Edited by - Lettsy1 on 27/07/2010 16:26:41
Go to Top of Page

Exile69
Snake Mite

United Kingdom
10 Posts

Posted - 27/07/2010 :  17:35:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Excellent,
Thanks for that.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 3  Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
The Royal Python Forum © THEROYALPYTHON.co.uk Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000